New 2 person rule head count

[Rex322]

Depends rachel. I always recommend they handle a few if possible to make sure they want to take on the challenge of one. How much experiance do they have with snakes in general? If they never worked with large snakes and assuming they were to get a baby burm we will say I would say do what you feel comfortable with. If u feel like you can handle it no problem and you can do things safely than go ahead and do it. Also depends on the size of the person. Obviously I'm not gonna tell someone who's 4'8 to handle a 13' snKe alone. There's alot of circumstances in it that need to be known. Alot of knoweldge comes from growing with the snake.

I know this won't change your mind about me but I have had alot of experiance with snakes before homer so it's not like I dived into caring for a giant snake alone

[Stargazer]

How do you know if you can't handle it safely until after an incident occurs, though?

To me, handling large snakes is like drinking and driving. Everyone thinks they know their limits. And 99 out of 100 times, they're right. Would hate to see that 100th time.

[Rex322]

Well star. How would you know when you wouldn't be able to handle one of yours safely? By a number of feet the snake is? By the weight of the snake? Or are you gonna go by what you feel you can handle safely and decide as you go.

I'm not stupid either. I wouldn't go hold a snake I don't know well that's large without someone present. Homers a little different to me because I've spent so much time around him and with him. I know the snake to the point that I can feel safe and confident enough to not need someone else

[Stargazer]

Originally Posted by Rex322

Well star. How would you know when you wouldn't be able to handle one of yours safely? By a number of feet the snake is? By the weight of the snake? Or are you gonna go by what you feel you can handle safely and decide as you go.

That's a really good question, Rex. I don't know how to answer it. Just because I think I will be able to handle them safely at 7 feet doesn't make it so. I feel more relaxed with Veronica who is bigger than Jesse. But see, for me, just because I feel comfortable handling her alone doesn't mean it's the best or safest thing to do. I don't go by comfort level because to me, that is the definition of complacency. I have handled 15-foot retics alone and felt very comfortable doing it, too. And BTW, in no way do I think you're stupid.

[spix14]

Originally Posted by Rex322

I'm not stupid either. I wouldn't go hold a snake I don't know well that's large without someone present. Homers a little different to me because I've spent so much time around him and with him. I know the snake to the point that I can feel safe and confident enough to not need someone else

And yet you admit yourself that animals are unpredictable. Wild, non-domesticated animals are even more so. I'm sure Roy thought he knew Montecore pretty well, right up until his teeth were buried in his neck.

How many zookeepers have been injured or killed by animals they worked with for years? Snakes are no more "tame" than a lion in the zoo. They may tolerate us and even become comfortable with being handled, that doesn't make them tame, or trustworthy.

You know, if you want to handle Homer alone, there's nothing I can do about it. But you sounding so nonchalant about it and acting like your snake is somehow different than another because you've owned him for a few years worries me. You should be every bit as cautious with him as you would be with a snake you'd never met before.

[Rex322]

just a couple pics I took using my phone when I cleaned his cage

[Rex322]

Star it's gonna be a comfort thing ultimatly though. If you didn't feel comfortable with your safety of handling them you wouldn't do it.

And ok I know I admit animals are unpredictable and I know homer is still a dangerous animal. But with everything in this world can be dangerous. You wanna follow a two person rule for everything that can be dangerous in this world? I hope you have a really good friend that you can put up with being around constantly because everything can be dangerous. I'm not gonna give up a snake that I'm comfortable handling and know what I'm doing with that has never shown aggression because I don't have someone else to help me everytime the majority of population thinks I should have help. I know the dangers of it and I know the consequences and that just makes me extra careful. I don't believe in the two person rule in every instance. I don't think it's always needed. Everyones situation is different. I live with my parents so yea alot of the time I have someone around the house but it makes no difference to me. Honestly I care more for the snakes life than I care for mine as messed up as that may sound. I would rather him be comfortable then for it to stop me from taking it out and stretching or cleaning it's cage because there ain't someone else around. If you want to enforce this rule so much tell breeders that work with these large animals to stop breeding because I'm willing to bet if everyone was in this mindset that this rule is a must there would be alot of homeless giants out there. There's more people who own giants then what's on this site and I'm sure a good deal of them probably handle them alone alot of the time as well. and I gaurentee there's people who share my opinion on this site who just won't speak up and that's fine too. The fact that I feel I do not feel I need someone else to handle my 13' Burmese python does not make me an irresponsible keeper. It doesn't make me a unsafe keeper. And it doesn't make me a threat to this hobby.

[spix14]

Originally Posted by Rex322

Honestly I care more for the snakes life than I care for mine as messed up as that may sound.

If that's the case, then look at it this way-what do you think will happen to Homer if an accident happens? What do you think most parents would do with a snake that killed their son?

Or what happens if the only way to get him off of you is to kill him? How would you feel about having to do something like that? If you care about Homer as much as you say you do you'd see it isn't just you the two person rule is there for. It's also for the sake of your friends, family, and the snake itself.

[Rex322]

That is a good point spix and I do agree with you. Killing him would be last resort though.

As for the thing with my parents. I've been over it with them over and over again. I told them what to do and who to call if it was to ever happen. They know not to let the snake be killed or to kill the snake if I'm already dead. They respect my wishes and honestly believe that they would honor my wishes

[Rachel SS]

If I didn't know anything about snakes and one killed my child, that snake would be dead. I think that is a basic mentality for parents.

[Rex322]

I understand that but if it was ur kids wish for no harm to be done to the animal would you disrespect your child and kill the snake anyways? I would hope not

[Rachel SS]

Originally Posted by Rex322

I understand that but if it was ur kids wish for no harm to be done to the animal would you disrespect your child and kill the snake anyways? I would hope not

If I didn't know anything about snakes? No, honestly, I probably would not. Neither would the coroner, police, and animal services that showed up to haul my child away.

[spix14]

Originally Posted by Rex322

I understand that but if it was ur kids wish for no harm to be done to the animal would you disrespect your child and kill the snake anyways? I would hope not

It would depend on the circumstances, I think. If I walked in a room and my child was dead with the snake wrapped around them, I really don't think I'd be thinking rationally in the slightest. Maternal instincts trump affection for pets in this case. If for some reason I wasn't there and had no contact with the snake until after the fact, I would very likely rehome it as at that point it would just be revenge killing, and pointless.

In any case this isn't something that will ever happen as safe handling is the first thing I'm drumming into my kid's head when she's old enough to handle them. Any breakage of the rules and her handling privileges will be taken away altogether.

[Retic virus]

Here's my take on this matter. I honestly believe that it depends on the speices of snake, but I follow the 8+ rule for handling any snake. A 6ft. retic IMO is still a noodle and therefore I believe that I could get him/her off of me in the event that an accident occurs. My wife too does not like snakes, but I know that if something ever happens, she'd be there to help. I also agree with everyone who has stated that complacency is deadly. The biggest snakes I have are over 12 feet and around 25-30lbs. Because my wife doesn't like the snakes I am "forced" to handle them by myself, but she is always in the room at the time or within distance if I should ever call for help. So the bottom line is anytime you handle a snake over 8 feet, someone should be with you or within earshot, and you should NEVER become to complacent with the snake just because you rasied it from a hatchling or you think it's "dog tame" (I use this term very, very loosely). Snakes will never "love" or "like" you, they act purely on instinct and not emotion.

	In My Opinon IMO = In My Opinion and IMHO = In My Honest Opinion

[Rex322]

I'd agree with you spix if I seen I wrapped around I would assume my kid was alive and would go crazy as well but if it was obvious that the kid wasn't. Well. And Rachel. I'm sry u feel that way

[Rachel SS]

I never said I MYSELF would do that. I'm saying, for a freaked out parent who is terrified of snakes and who just found their dead child strangulated by one, I would.

[jake_brownell2004]

I think this thread has lost its perpose and become nothing short of a giant diagrement. I think its time to end this pointless things.. its going no were but a fight. Anyone else agree

mod plz

[Rex322]

Well I can't speak for everyone else but I'm not fighting nor am I mad. It's just an interesting discussion or debate. This is what a forums for ain't it? To debate things and learn new things?